Opinions on faith and life

Tales from the Crypt

2008-08-17

Remember that new cult I told you about? It was born with fangs! Just read some of these quotes and see for yourself. But keep your distance, and don’t read it after a meal. (source)

There is no third way in which one can have both the God of Judeo-Christian tradition, that is, the God of the Bible, and the egalitarian god. You can be a Christian or an egalitarian; you can’t be both. This is simply a matter of study and reason, and I am joined in this opinion by feminist theologians who think that Christianity isn’t true. They are more honest than those who wish to eat Christian pudding with egalitarian sauce.

Males are given by God a higher place in the human hierarchy not because of their superior “virtues,” or “traits,” or necessarily even abilities. They are assigned the leader/provider/protector tasks simply because God decided they should depict Him in His relationship to His creation (the masculine vis a vis the feminine).

I understand. It’s same old, same old. But you still have to unsheath the battle-worn sword again and again because the Medusa-witch keeps growing new heads with every new and deceived generation.

Touchstone has no rule that its writers must be Christians.

Let me make it clear that I judge no one’s soul--only God can do that. What I’m saying is that egalitarianism and Christianity contradict each other.

But power and hierarchy are very different things... But true patriarchy is actually the restraint of this power to dominate, the replacement of the simple capacity to exploit with an obligation to lead... But this is impossible when the very idea of leadership is dismissed [Note: this is a lie, egals do not dismiss the idea of leadership. We just don’t arbitrarily assign it to anyone based on the flesh.]

The absence of hierarchy is predation.

Could it not then be said that Satan is an egalitarian? In fact, isn’t it fair to say that Satan is the first egalitarian?

the mystery of the Holy Trinity, in which ontological equality exists within the a natural hierarchy [Note: there is no hierarchy in the One God]

you hold positions that are heterodox at best, and rank heresy at worst.

Let’s put it this way for those who don’t like my saying you can’t be a Christian and an egalitarian: to the degree a person is an egalitarian, he is not a Christian. It means the same thing.

I was being charitable. Don’t get me going. Besides, you already called yourself an egalitarian. What could I add that would be worse than that?

That’s right; he’s simply a false teacher and self-opinionated heretic, who twists Scripture to his own destruction. I do not account him in any sense a “fellow-believer.”

(emphasis mine)

Well, there you have it: cold, dead, hatred of egals by male supremacists. I couldn’t make myself read any more, you’ll have to continue reading there to see the rest. Name calling, cursing, ripping the Body apart! What kind of “Christians” engage in such Satanic butchery?? Where is the love of God in their hearts?

23 Comments

Lin

I was stunned and am very concerned that those commenters may be pastors.

Greg Anderson

All the more reason we should get down on our knees and give thanks that these men cannot enlist the power of the state to enforce their ideology on the populace. Believe it, they would dearly love to if they thought for a moment that they could pull it off.

The founders of our nation knew full well that brutal tyranny is fully enabled when religion and politics ride in the same cart.

Lin

How strange, Greg. I was just thinking how grateful I am this is not 1571 and we are not in Geneva.

Don would be burning at the stake right now. They were even using words on Don that were used then to describe Ana Baptists!

Cheryl Schatz

The hatred coming from these complementarians was absolutely shocking to me.

Interesting that these complementarians believe that Satan was the first egalitarian. That goes against scripture. God said that he would initiate an enmity between the serpent and the woman and between her seed and his seed. The woman has fought against the serpent through her spiritual warfare and God has made her a true warrior in this fight. The enmity that of the serpent is also quite evidence. Satan himself hates women and has instigated men to kill female babies and to dominate and control women throughout the centuries to try to make them ineffective in fighting him. But God has given us the tools to equip us in the battle and He has also given us courage to fight the enemy even while our brothers in Christ have been deceived to see our fight with the enemy as an alignment with the enemy himself.

Take courage women! Keep your eyes on Christ and keep fighting the battle against the enemy! When we finally see Jesus our reward will be evident to all and those who fight us here will be greatly ashamed of that stand in eternity. Many will find that they have unwittingly aligned themselves with the enemy because of their hatred for women who are in the battle as soldiers. However we do not keep our eyes on them, but on Jesus.

Good post Paula and something I can give to people who tell me that egalitarians are the ones who have caused the division in the Church.

Don

This is Don.

I can take these verbal barrages and forgive them. It makes me appreciate what actual martyrs went thru to allow us to read the Bible in our native language, believer’s baptism, etc.

I was pretty amazed how vitriolic it got and how quickly. And it seemed to be a repudiation contest of some sort. I warned it was a bad witness and then I tried to go the Mat 18 route, to no avail.

Paula Fether

Lin, I guess we shouldn’t be surprised that "Pastors" are engaging in this sort of witch-hunt mentality. They learned it in cemetery seminary and are thoroughly brainwashed.

Greg, you’re absolutely right, they’d burn us all if they could. The popes and Pharisees have returned.

Cheryl, thanks for the encouragement. You and Don have earned crowns of glory for being willing to suffer the shame of reproach for the Name. That such venom could be spat from people calling themselves by that same Name is incomprehensible to us all, but Jesus did say our enemies would be members of our own "house". I fully expect them to embrace Islam and/or Mormonism’s complete, open, blatant subjugation of women as subhuman temptresses--- in keeping with the tradition of "church fathers"!

Don (I’d never guess you were Don, hee hee!), sad to say I’ve never seen Mt. 18 work the few times it’s been tried. I’m sure it does work, since Jesus Himself gave the instruction, but this modern Diotrephes complex will undoubtedly require something severe to break it. For their sakes, cursing a fellow believer and calling egals lost, I hope they get their punishment in this life.

tiro3

"They are assigned the leader/provider/protector tasks simply because God decided they should depict Him in His relationship to His creation"

Perhaps they cannot understand what it means that God is no respecter of persons, or maybe that doesn’t refer to women anymore.

Often when asked why would God prefer men over women, they come up with the above.... ’its not that God prefers men, God just has decided....."

Paula Fether

And they ignore Gen. 1 which states that God created mankind in his image.

ahunt

Oh Lord...please forgive us for practicing mutual submission, for respecting and deferring to one another in the example of Christ, for developing and demonstrating the talents and abilities You gave us to the fullest extent possible, for living marital life in the spirit of service and cooperation...

We repent of our heretical practices, and humbly ask how You would have us structure our lives in your Will and Wisdom.

Paula Fether

[Note for anyone who, in their galaxy, might miss the subtle genius of ahunt’s comment: it’s called "tongue-in-cheek".]

And while we’re at it, let’s also get all the egal males to repent of "thinking of others as better" than themselves, or taking "not so among you" literally. And for thinking women are fully human. And for not throwing their spiritual weight around like they should.

ahunt

Paula...I just do not believe that God is sweatin’ the small stuff. I do not believe that God is up there micromanaging our lives and demanding that we not associate with those who are different. More, I cannot put my faith in a Savior that is fundamentally irrational...and that is what this "hyper pat cult" is demanding that I do.

And I know that many of my responses are inherently disrespectful, and I know that my sense of humor too often defines my understanding of scripture, but.... heretical?

We cannot get 50%, or 40% or even 35% of professing believers into a pew on a remotely regular basis, and now the "club" is not just exclusionary...but reactionary?

Look for the Christian persecution complex to be making real headlines next...in a country where Christians have rarely if ever endured actual persecution by non-Christians, but one in which Christians were initially all over persecuting fellow believers.

Paula, if I seem too liberal for you, please know that my large breeder family looks like the UN...common in families with a military heritage. We marry outside our faith, our country and yes, our race...and somehow, it all works. As of my generation (baby boomer) we do not do "exclusion" and we leave judgement to God.

I know I’m all over the place here...but our clan is huge, diverse and somehow there is always room for one more. We leave the question of salvation to God, and our family potlucks are joyous.

I could not live in the world envisioned by the Hyper Pats.

Paula Fether

Not to worry, ahunt. "Liberal" and "Conservative" don’t really mean much anymore. They’re just another pair of boxes.

One of the best-kept secrets in Christendumb is how very much worse we are than the world in many ways. I grew up in a Christian family, from a long line of professing believers, and we were all very active. We could talk the talk with the best of ’em.

But at home... when nobody was looking...

we were just like everyone else, and maybe worse. It was all legalistic, it was all about performance, checking off the boxes, and above all, raking over the coals anyone who didn’t. Other than church attendance, nobody could tell we were Christians, and that was just wrong.

I rebelled against that facade at an early age and incurred the wrath of my family. I had the unmitigated gall to tell them they shouldn’t be control freaks, or cut people down for having traditions that didn’t match ours, or not practicing what they preached.

And it wasn’t just our family. All the church families were the same. Divorces, abuse, petty politics, pride, selfishness... and even though I no longer attend The Institution, I don’t think anything has changed.

I too have been saying that the worst persecution comes from religious leaders, and that Jesus said our enemies would be in our own house. And so it will be in the Brave New World Order, when "Christianity" will hunt and kill again as it did in centuries past.

The male supremacists, whose rhetoric is bordering on phallus worship, are just one plank in the global control platform. Control and micro-management also encompass Churchianity’s long tradition of class distinction, and now political ambition that would, as stated already, result in persecution of non-conformists. It’s all a huge boiling cauldron of evil.

The end is truly near, one way or another.

ahunt

Oh Good Lord, Paula...

Phallus Worship?

I dare not write explicitly of the hopelessly hilarious, utterly vulgar and sooo secular naughty nonsense the BH engages in whenever I read him the latest Piper/Grudem pronouncement on what women may and may not do/be/feel.

But delicately put...what the unworthy phallus wants...the unworthy phallus seeks, and God’s Will and the well-being of others be damned.

The BH has no patience with this profoundly "unscriptual" phallus theology...and his locker room ridicule would be devastating if it ever went beyond his audience of one.

I used to feel a bit guilty about enjoying the "misbehavior"...as if I were encouraging bad conduct...not so much anymore.

DB

Phallus worship, ha! I was going to say that they were proud of their, um, Y chromosome, that is the more PC way of saying the obvious.

I am glad this error in the Church is being addressed.

Oppressing half the world’s population is no more moral than enslaving people based upon the level of melanin in their skin cells.

Paula Fether

Welcome, DB! Glad to be of service.

As my husband once said, here’s a good way to remember which chromosome refers to what:

If it’s a girl, they say "eXcellent!" But if it’s a boy, they say "whY?"

Lin

"Look for the Christian persecution complex to be making real headlines next…in a country where Christians have rarely if ever endured actual persecution by non-Christians, but one in which Christians were initially all over persecuting fellow believers."

Well, this is the point. We are the church of Laodicea. We have too much money and our leaders have too much time and money on their hands and they sit around and think this stuff up.

Imagine the scene:

1979: Well, we can’t sell the ’woman are inferior’ doctrine anymore. They are just not buying it. After 1700 years, they have figured it out by reading scripture that it is not true. More woman are even studying Greek and Hebrew! Over all these years, we were able to keep much of this contained and the few educated women contained but now there are tons of them free to study on their own! Oh how things were so much easier for our brothers in the state church. No one questioned their authority unless they were into serious punishment.

We have to come up with a way to keep them in their place without them really seeing it that way.

I know! Lets start preaching lots of sermons about how horrible the culture is! Let’s focus soley on the horrible culture and just pretend 1 Corin 5 and Peter does not exist. That will get them to see that any women who are part of the women’s movement is bad. They won’t feel guilty about wanting to be equal but they will feel bad if we show them how evil any woman associated with that movement is. They can only be really saved if they are in OUR church being a part of the good moral people like us.

1984: This is not working as well as we had hoped and there are plenty of other pastors in other denominations who are scared, too. We need to band together.

But we have to find a way to sell inequality in the Lord to them that they will accept. Put your thinking caps on. We need a slogan. All movements have a slogan. Something they will buy into. We cannot say outright they are unequal because that will not fly.

We need our own language, too. it must consist of descriptive words that won’t offend people but will get them thinking about themselves a lot. We want them focused on themselves all the time and on each other.

1986: We have it! We will actually tell them they ARE equal! (sinister laugh) But we will negate that thought with the teaching that they have specific roles. If they ask why the roles are unequal we will shame them for questioning God!

If they stay in their role they are equal!

We will call it: COMPLEMENTARIAN. Think of how beautiful and EQUAL that sounds! And we will tell them that ALL complementarians understand the concept of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood!

If we repeat it long enough, people will actually think it is in scripture!

Paula Fether

Excellent work, Lin! I’d say you have them pegged.

We need some pictures with that. Anybody here a cartoonist? This would do very well in comic book format.

Paula Fether

And another one for the excessive comp use of adjectives. You know, like instead of just "her humble, pure submission to his loving, godly leadership" we could have "her humble, pure, unquestioning, eternal, childlike, slavish, ego-stroking subservience to his loving, godlike, masterful, absolute, masculine, unquestionable domination."

Greg Anderson

ahunt #11,

The "L" word (liberal) in some circles is an immediate show-stopper, and can even be worse than the "F" word. At least with the "F" word you can do immediate penance if it slips out in heavy traffic or under your breath during some other event.

Not so with the "L" word. Here in Southern Cal. where much of evangelical protestantism is wedded to conservative republicanism, You might as well yell "unclean" from the parking lot to the church building if you hold any views which diverge from those of Bill O’Reilly & Ann Coulter.

I myself have been accused of being a closet Marxist for daring to suggest that the current financial meltdown is largely the product of the deregulation of the banking and investment industries by a certain ex-actor who occupied the oval office for 8 years.

Paula Fether

Greg, just knowing you’re there in the People’s Republic surely makes it a better place. ;-)

I’m a conservative and all, but we all know what happens when Christians get the State in their pocket. It’s not a pretty sight.

But you’re right of course about following the money. All too true.

Lin

"I myself have been accused of being a closet Marxist for daring to suggest that the current financial meltdown is largely the product of the deregulation of the banking and investment industries by a certain ex-actor who occupied the oval office for 8 years."

Well as John Adams said, A democratic republic will only work with a just and moral people.

But you are right about Church being wedded to the State in politics. I was involved in it and I came to see how fruitless it is.

Think about it...does anyone really care anymore who Dobson may or may not endorse for Prez. Poor guy...it used to count for lots of votes. Not anymore.

Greg Anderson

Lin,

You are crack on about the degree of freedom and accessibility that women have these days to study the ancient writings for themselves. No longer do they have to settle for what a patriocentrist says they say.

Bushnell’s fervent hope that girls could be started out early studying Hebrew and Greek will become a reality.

The reformation is far from over, and it will continue until the day of Jesus Christ.

Paula Fether

I view reformation as like trying to bypass and patch and rebuild an old beat-up car. You can only do that for so long. And if the car runs on gas but we were supposed to build one that runs on battery, there’s not much about the old gas-guzzler that can be reformed.

What we need here is a New Car! One that has Spirit in the tank and Gifting for wheels. One where instead of there being only one driver who keeps nodding at the wheel, we all take turns.